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Kron critica graduação online no Jiu-Jitsu: ‘A faixa não pode ser trat

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Javier Vazquez share's his thoughts on recent controversy surrounding Gracie University...

"I want to be very clear on my opinion on Gracie University. I think Gracie University is an amazing and overwhelmingly positive thing. It is helping students all around the world learn Jiu-Jitsu that might not have the ability to do so otherwise and Rener have figured out a way to spread Jiu-Jitsu to the world in a structured and organized fashion. You can log on from anywhere in the world and learn Jiu-Jitsu in a clearly presented and structured fashion. I commend them on their dedication, hard work and persistence to completing this massive task. Since I started to build my own curriculum I personally understand that it is a huge task of monumental proportion! The work that they have put forth has been tremendous. To be able to build the site, structure a curriculum (which is a feat in and of itself), film and present the material in a clear and simplified manner is both incredible and commendable.

I myself have learned from Gracie University. I learned The Gracie Combatives Course thru Gracie University. I watched the lessons and then came into my academy to drill and work on mastering the techniques. Although I drilled the techniques at my academy, the initial learning of the step by step process of each technique was learned thru Gracie University.

The fact that Ryron and Rener are teaching thru the internet is just one facet of what they have created. They are now creating jobs and opportunities for others to live a great lifestyle by becoming Jiu Jitsu teachers. They are certifying instructors to teach the Gracie Combatives course. I have also gone thru their instructors program and again I learned a lot about presentation and how to help students learn better. Ryron and Rener are master teacher and presenters and that cannot be disputed. They can teach technique and they can also teach you to present and teach. They give you the tools and experience to be able to pass the knowledge to the next generation of students.

For those who believe that Gracie University doesn't work I have some questions to ask them: Why do people buy DVDs to learn technique? Why do people search YouTube for technique? The answer is simple. Because they want to learn and it works! Aren’t you basically doing the same thing by watching a DVD or YouTube?

The difference between Gracie University and just about every other Jiu Jitsu technique site or YouTube is it's structure, teaching methodology and presentation.

You can learn just about anything thru video. Now, being able to apply it is something completely different. To be able to apply the techniques against a resisting opponent requires time effort, repetition and hard work. Just because you can learn the steps to welding, for example, does not mean that you know how to weld. You have to have a steady hand and the feel required to be able to actually weld. The same is true with Jiu Jitsu. You can learn the step by step procedure but the feel, timing and the leverage has to be learned thru time on the mat. You can learn the steps but you won't be able to apply it without practice. Ryron and Rener make this perfectly clear thru Gracie University. They tell you that you won’t be able to learn Jiu-Jitsu by only watching the videos. Also, the vast majority of online students eventually find a local school to train at because the commitment and dedication to online learning is generally too much for the average person. To be able to learn online takes a very dedicated type of student. Now, even if you don’t have a local school that you can trust or rely on or there just isn’t a school near you, Gracie University is a viable option.

To say that you cannot learn online is just not true. That is the same thing as saying that you cannot learn off of a DVD which is also not true. You cannot just watch the videos and download the data into your brain and be able to do it. Gracie University cannot do that. It is a supplemental approach to learning. You need to watch the videos and then practice the techniques with a good partner that also has the desire to learn the techniques. If both parties are willing to learn together it will benefit both people as well as help you be able to learn the techniques a bit quicker because you are looking to help each other out.

I have shared links on my timeline with articles that disagree with Gracie University and the online belt promotion procedure. I shared those links, not because I agree with them, but because it stimulates conversation and it's good to hear other peoples opinions. Not everyone will agree with Gracie University and it's practices and that's ok. But to say that it doesn't work it’s just not true!

As far as my opinion on online belts I feel that the Technical Blue Belt that was just recently implemented is a great idea. I think that this belt will create a separation between online students and "live" academy students. In order to earn a “Regular” Blue Belt you must come in and test live with a credible instructor. I think it will separate the belts just like the experience of learning the techniques are different when done online as opposed to in a “Live” environment. The experiences are different and each Gracie University student should be tested in a live environment to prove that they can perform the techniques agains resisting opponents and not just be able to drill them.

Any time that you change the norm or introduce something different, especially something revolutionary, you will encounter resistance. This is just one of those scenarios. Because the concept of online learning is so different and ground breaking you will always have your detractors which will only focus on the negatives or the potential impact that it could have on them. You need to look at this subject from both angles. In my opinion, Gracie University’s benefits far outweigh any potential "negatives".

Javier Vazquez

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+1:

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Even though his skill set is better suited for the street than for the sport, we want to congratulate Gracie University "Online Blue Belt" Ismail Geyik for taking gold at the German NAGA Championship. All wins by submission, and based on his gi patch, he kept it playful

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mas Rorion nem pensar....ele destruiu a possibilidade de termos uma família Gracie unificada,ele fez tudo para cortar os laços entre seus familiares....

Postei isso há pouco,todos conhecem a trajetória de Rorion,aqui estamos somente para debater,denegrir não vale a pena,mas eu sempre vi Helio tentando ajudar Rorion,em seus treinos,em suas lutas,ele ficava revoltado com os amassos que Rolls dava nele(eu vi alguns),Rorion teve sérias dificuldades em 2007 e Helio o ajudou lançando um livro de forma global repassando seus ganhos para seu filho mais velho,lá nos 5 UFC's que Rorion ficou à frente sempre estava ao seu lado Helio Gracie,apoiou seu filho mais velho sempre inclusive em detrimento dos demais,filhos e sobrinhos,Rorion vai fazer um seminário aqui no Rio,jiu-jitsu e dieta Gracie,no forte da Urca R$200,00 por cabeça.....nem de graça!

Osss!

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Valeu Fefo,certa vez ouvi um faixa vermelha nono grau aí de São Paulo...humildemente ele disse "essa faixa é por tempo de serviço,não é mérito"....digo o mesmo...é tempo de serviço,comecei à treinar em 1967,portanto espero ter saúde e continuar treinando,se continuar daqui há 18 anos recebo a vermelha...conto com vocês todos,esse tatame nosso aqui no Portal é um pedaço do nosso jiu-jitsu!

Alm, sem discordar do teu exercício de modéstia, que fica ainda mais bacana com tua nova faixa, mas vou destacar que tempo de serviço é fonte de mérito, num esporte tão duro como este nosso. Diria mais ainda: é natural seguir treinando quando a natureza faz o cara bom. Difícil mesmo é seguir adiante, voltando pra casa todo estourando, dia após dia, ano após ano, lesão após lesão, sem o auxílio de um dote natural especial, dependendo da ralação. Oss!

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Para contribuir com a discussão:

10177373_10152411798574076_6261702461621411240_n.jpg

Javier Vazquez share's his thoughts on recent controversy surrounding Gracie University...

"I want to be very clear on my opinion on Gracie University. I think Gracie University is an amazing and overwhelmingly positive thing. It is helping students all around the world learn Jiu-Jitsu that might not have the ability to do so otherwise and Rener have figured out a way to spread Jiu-Jitsu to the world in a structured and organized fashion. You can log on from anywhere in the world and learn Jiu-Jitsu in a clearly presented and structured fashion. I commend them on their dedication, hard work and persistence to completing this massive task. Since I started to build my own curriculum I personally understand that it is a huge task of monumental proportion! The work that they have put forth has been tremendous. To be able to build the site, structure a curriculum (which is a feat in and of itself), film and present the material in a clear and simplified manner is both incredible and commendable.

I myself have learned from Gracie University. I learned The Gracie Combatives Course thru Gracie University. I watched the lessons and then came into my academy to drill and work on mastering the techniques. Although I drilled the techniques at my academy, the initial learning of the step by step process of each technique was learned thru Gracie University.

The fact that Ryron and Rener are teaching thru the internet is just one facet of what they have created. They are now creating jobs and opportunities for others to live a great lifestyle by becoming Jiu Jitsu teachers. They are certifying instructors to teach the Gracie Combatives course. I have also gone thru their instructors program and again I learned a lot about presentation and how to help students learn better. Ryron and Rener are master teacher and presenters and that cannot be disputed. They can teach technique and they can also teach you to present and teach. They give you the tools and experience to be able to pass the knowledge to the next generation of students.

For those who believe that Gracie University doesn't work I have some questions to ask them: Why do people buy DVDs to learn technique? Why do people search YouTube for technique? The answer is simple. Because they want to learn and it works! Aren't you basically doing the same thing by watching a DVD or YouTube?

The difference between Gracie University and just about every other Jiu Jitsu technique site or YouTube is it's structure, teaching methodology and presentation.

You can learn just about anything thru video. Now, being able to apply it is something completely different. To be able to apply the techniques against a resisting opponent requires time effort, repetition and hard work. Just because you can learn the steps to welding, for example, does not mean that you know how to weld. You have to have a steady hand and the feel required to be able to actually weld. The same is true with Jiu Jitsu. You can learn the step by step procedure but the feel, timing and the leverage has to be learned thru time on the mat. You can learn the steps but you won't be able to apply it without practice. Ryron and Rener make this perfectly clear thru Gracie University. They tell you that you won't be able to learn Jiu-Jitsu by only watching the videos. Also, the vast majority of online students eventually find a local school to train at because the commitment and dedication to online learning is generally too much for the average person. To be able to learn online takes a very dedicated type of student. Now, even if you don't have a local school that you can trust or rely on or there just isn't a school near you, Gracie University is a viable option.

To say that you cannot learn online is just not true. That is the same thing as saying that you cannot learn off of a DVD which is also not true. You cannot just watch the videos and download the data into your brain and be able to do it. Gracie University cannot do that. It is a supplemental approach to learning. You need to watch the videos and then practice the techniques with a good partner that also has the desire to learn the techniques. If both parties are willing to learn together it will benefit both people as well as help you be able to learn the techniques a bit quicker because you are looking to help each other out.

I have shared links on my timeline with articles that disagree with Gracie University and the online belt promotion procedure. I shared those links, not because I agree with them, but because it stimulates conversation and it's good to hear other peoples opinions. Not everyone will agree with Gracie University and it's practices and that's ok. But to say that it doesn't work it's just not true!

As far as my opinion on online belts I feel that the Technical Blue Belt that was just recently implemented is a great idea. I think that this belt will create a separation between online students and "live" academy students. In order to earn a "Regular" Blue Belt you must come in and test live with a credible instructor. I think it will separate the belts just like the experience of learning the techniques are different when done online as opposed to in a "Live" environment. The experiences are different and each Gracie University student should be tested in a live environment to prove that they can perform the techniques agains resisting opponents and not just be able to drill them.

Any time that you change the norm or introduce something different, especially something revolutionary, you will encounter resistance. This is just one of those scenarios. Because the concept of online learning is so different and ground breaking you will always have your detractors which will only focus on the negatives or the potential impact that it could have on them. You need to look at this subject from both angles. In my opinion, Gracie University's benefits far outweigh any potential "negatives".

Javier Vazquez

Eu falei. E aqui está mais claro ainda. Ajuda, mas nunca substitui.

Falou, falou e falou, mas no fim das contas, tá lá no tatame fazendo drill pra caralho. Esse papo de azul online, e treino com amigo em garagem não me engana. Mesmo com a frase seguinte falando que aprendeu mesmo as posições nos vídeos.

Enfim...

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Eu falei. E aqui está mais claro ainda. Ajuda, mas nunca substitui.

Falou, falou e falou, mas no fim das contas, tá lá no tatame fazendo drill pra caralho. Esse papo de azul online, e treino com amigo em garagem não me engana. Mesmo com a frase seguinte falando que aprendeu mesmo as posições nos vídeos.

Enfim...

hein? Mas é lógico que tem que treinar. Você aprende a técnica, e depois vc aprimora os reflexos em muitas horas de tatame, seja na garagem ou na academia tradicional...

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hein? Mas é lógico que tem que treinar. Você aprende a técnica, e depois vc aprimora os reflexos em muitas horas de tatame, seja na garagem ou na academia tradicional...

É o que estou falando, o cara não deixou de ir à academia pra treinar. Se fosse bão mesmo, ficava na garagem. Pra que gastar tempo e gasolina pra se deslocar para uma academia? Chama um vizinho e treina na boa. Falar que melhorou pelos vídeos e não pelo tatame e seu companheiros (e mestre de carne e osso, diga-se de passagem) é de uma inocência enorme.

A não ser que você ache que dá no mesmo...

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Ahhh, entendi... O cara que treina com ele na garagem não é companheiro de treino, né?! Ahhh entendi.

Ele deve estar considerando dois leigos vendo vídeos na internet e fazendo treinos sozinhos, sem que nenhum dos dois tenha experiencia anterior ou treine numa academia.

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Ahhh, entendi... O cara que treina com ele na garagem não é companheiro de treino, né?! Ahhh entendi.

Me indago o porque de ir até uma academia pra rolar com os cascas grossas. Se é tão igual rolar com o vizinho vendo os vídeos da internet na garagem... rolleyes.gif

Não consigo acreditar que alguém acredite seriamente em algo assim. Enfim...

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Eu já discuti bastante no outro tópico, por isso não me envolvi muito aqui. Mas vamos lá. Eu vejo dois tipos de problemas envolvidos neste assunto:

1. Um problema técnico: dá pra aprender um pouco de jiu-jitsu de modo online? Eu até acho que pode dar, em certas condições especiais. Imagina alguém que seja um bom wrestler, que tem um amigo na mesma condição, e estes caras se dispõem a estudar online e na garagem. Este cara pode virar um bom faixa azul? Até acho que pode. Estudo online pode ser um primo pobre, mas com alguma eficiência, do ensino presencial. O faixa azul "wrestler" pode até passar o carro em um faixa azul comum de academia. O teste é se este cara pode virar um marrom capaz de passar o carro em um marrom de academia.

2. Um problema "filosófico", como alguém chamou em outro post: pode-se sugerir que se deva aprender uma arte marcial fora do ambiente da academia ? Aqui eu fico incomodado com a coisa. Pra mim, arte marcial não pode ter só relação com o cara lutar ou não bem. Tem que ter a ver com certos valores e uma certa formação do caráter. Eu não quero pertencer ao mesmo grupo de um. Maiquel Falcão da vida, por exemplo. É claro que tem muito professor e aluno bandidismo por aí. Eu acho que uma confederação deve banir quem apronta. No presencial dá pra saber em quem colocar a culpa. No online, a culpa de alguma ação inadequada vai cair sobre quem cria ou aplica o método. Além disso, há toda questão que já foi posta aqui. Faixa não carrega só competência. Faixa carrega a conquista de um lugar na comunidade do JJ, gente que você formou, capacidade de dar um bom conselho, técnico ou pessoal pra um colega de treino mais novo, etc, etc. Eu, pessoalmente, sou totalmente contra a idéia de abrir mão de um milímetro destas coisas.

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HAUAHUAHAUHAUHAUAHAUAHU

São tipo os Myiao e os Mendes, uma pessoa só.

só que aqui eles são ao contrário, um ataca e o urro defende. Acho que os dois são clones e ficam nessa só pra dar um up no tópico :-)

desculpa aí TupAC/ET, só pra tirar onda.

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